Another Lessen in Science
Sep. 2nd, 2009 10:10 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
seedeeThe fandom survey affair is going from offensive and badly researched to being ridiculous and just bizarre.
More quotes from Dr. Ogi Ogas (O_O). It's just that funny/horrifying/baffling/mind-boggling.
O_O: Well, slash is kind of the female equivalent of the straight male interest in transsexuals. That is, the opposite of what culture would predict. So it probably reflects a more direct subcortical effect. Also, there's already data out there about romance novels we can use, which probably overlaps with relationships in fan fic, but we do have a few questions that aren't specific to slash. Maybe we'll have more in the next round.
Slash is like straight male interest in transsexuals. It is NOT however like straight male interest in femslash. We also acknowledge that slash written by non-straight females or *gasp* non-females does not exist nor is any of it consumed by them.
O_O: But wait a minute--female rhesus monkeys will pay juice to look at pictures of male penises. That doesn't sound like human females at all. The number of women who pay to look at porn is so close to zero that whenever CCBill (the largest billing system for adult sites) sees a female name on a credit card payment, it gets flagged.
*tries to keep a straight face*
*ponders how much juice she would give for what male penis*
O_O: If a woman wearing a DKNY black dress at a holiday party is attracted to a tall Asian man, the dress and the party may be cultural, but the ultimate source of the attraction is subcortical.
This explains why attraction has nothing to do with culture. Because we all know that culture is reduced to the label and colour of the dress and has nothing do with things that shape our perception of attractiveness. After all, the ideal of beauty has never, ever changed. That's a pure physical brain thing. Glad that we cleared that up.
O_O: Women are blessed in that fan fiction is an infinitely more sociable and adaptable structure built upon the foundation of the subcortex than the crude gauchery bequeathed to men.
Are you feeling blessed? Or are you feeling sorry for those poor men? Are you a man? What are you doing here? *bequeaths*
O_O: A few questions are repeated on other data sources we're using, and help us correlate responses. For example, the true love question. We don't really have any theory about what these responses might reveal, though we're personally curious, ...
So. Would you please tell me your credit card number, expiry date and the three digit number on the back? I don't really have any theory about what the response might reveal, though I'm personally curious.
O_O: To state the obvious, some women do like visual pornography. (Incidentally, the statistics suggest these tend to be women who self-identify as bisexual; again, another clue.)
Hang on. Only straight women read and write slash, but bisexual women like visual porn. AHA! It's a clue! Erm. Didn't you say in the other quote that human females wouldn't pay to look at male penises? Are we only talking about lesbian porn. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I digress.
O_O: I guess I'd say that a failure of one's own scientific imagination is not really a valid methodological criticism.
You think fandom is dumb. We got that a while ago.
O_O: Ask porn guys to read some slash and talk about their reactions, and ask fan fiction people to look at a lot of porn. I think you can imagine how well that suggestion would go down. Though even the impossibility of this prospect is revealing. Why would fandom be so resistant to looking at images of bikinis and bukkake--and why would most men have such a visceral reaction to slash?
Yeah. Fanfiction writers would be disgusted at the idea of watching porn or looking at pictures of bikinis and bukkake (bonus points for the elegant use of stylistic elements to distract from context). Unimaginable. And he wants men to read slash! OMG! I'm so glad that these scientists are neutral researchers and not, for examples, a bunch of prejudiced, homophobic, misogynistic, pseudo-academic little pissers. Now that would be annoying.
O_O: Men want to see women in porn that behave exactly like they'd behave: promiscuous, easy, and without any lasting connection. In the case of gay men, they DO get to see men who behave just like them. When men read books, they want action. Generally speaking, women want to read about men who behave like them: sensitive and emotionally committed. In those women who do like visual erotica, they tend to want plot and context.
Ogi: Mom, why don't you like porn?
Mom: Oh Ogi, dear, I hear it is full of naked people. I enjoy movies with plot where they show relationships between sensitive and emotionally committed people.
Ogi: *writes down theory*
And the winner is:
Dr. Ogi Ogas about why the survey failed:
I think one big mistake we made -- and I believe it was a mistake in execution, rather than conception -- was to include questions that we perceived to be of interest to fandom. We would have been better off if we had simply included questions that were of interest to us, though that most likely would have generated its own similar set of problems. Some questions were suggested to us by fans and an aca-fan, though we're fully responsible for the final wording of the questions. They weren't really of interest to us, but since fans were helping us with this project, we wanted to give something back.
I... got nothing.
The bolded lines are all unaltered quotes from this thread.
The following is an older quote, but unaltered as well. It shows nicely how open-minded Ogi Ogas is and how deep his desire to understand fandom goes:
Gay erotica (that is, gay sex stories written by gay guys for gay guys) is probably easiest because it feels like straight erotica (which I can enjoy), with domination and erotic tropes I can relate to... I can handle the emotional aspects of slash (makes me feel like I'm reading chick lit, which I do read once in a while) but when the emotional stuff then leads into gay sex... that's pretty much the worst! :)
More quotes from Dr. Ogi Ogas (O_O). It's just that funny/horrifying/baffling/mind-boggling.
O_O: Well, slash is kind of the female equivalent of the straight male interest in transsexuals. That is, the opposite of what culture would predict. So it probably reflects a more direct subcortical effect. Also, there's already data out there about romance novels we can use, which probably overlaps with relationships in fan fic, but we do have a few questions that aren't specific to slash. Maybe we'll have more in the next round.
Slash is like straight male interest in transsexuals. It is NOT however like straight male interest in femslash. We also acknowledge that slash written by non-straight females or *gasp* non-females does not exist nor is any of it consumed by them.
O_O: But wait a minute--female rhesus monkeys will pay juice to look at pictures of male penises. That doesn't sound like human females at all. The number of women who pay to look at porn is so close to zero that whenever CCBill (the largest billing system for adult sites) sees a female name on a credit card payment, it gets flagged.
*tries to keep a straight face*
*ponders how much juice she would give for what male penis*
O_O: If a woman wearing a DKNY black dress at a holiday party is attracted to a tall Asian man, the dress and the party may be cultural, but the ultimate source of the attraction is subcortical.
This explains why attraction has nothing to do with culture. Because we all know that culture is reduced to the label and colour of the dress and has nothing do with things that shape our perception of attractiveness. After all, the ideal of beauty has never, ever changed. That's a pure physical brain thing. Glad that we cleared that up.
O_O: Women are blessed in that fan fiction is an infinitely more sociable and adaptable structure built upon the foundation of the subcortex than the crude gauchery bequeathed to men.
Are you feeling blessed? Or are you feeling sorry for those poor men? Are you a man? What are you doing here? *bequeaths*
O_O: A few questions are repeated on other data sources we're using, and help us correlate responses. For example, the true love question. We don't really have any theory about what these responses might reveal, though we're personally curious, ...
So. Would you please tell me your credit card number, expiry date and the three digit number on the back? I don't really have any theory about what the response might reveal, though I'm personally curious.
O_O: To state the obvious, some women do like visual pornography. (Incidentally, the statistics suggest these tend to be women who self-identify as bisexual; again, another clue.)
Hang on. Only straight women read and write slash, but bisexual women like visual porn. AHA! It's a clue! Erm. Didn't you say in the other quote that human females wouldn't pay to look at male penises? Are we only talking about lesbian porn. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I digress.
O_O: I guess I'd say that a failure of one's own scientific imagination is not really a valid methodological criticism.
You think fandom is dumb. We got that a while ago.
O_O: Ask porn guys to read some slash and talk about their reactions, and ask fan fiction people to look at a lot of porn. I think you can imagine how well that suggestion would go down. Though even the impossibility of this prospect is revealing. Why would fandom be so resistant to looking at images of bikinis and bukkake--and why would most men have such a visceral reaction to slash?
Yeah. Fanfiction writers would be disgusted at the idea of watching porn or looking at pictures of bikinis and bukkake (bonus points for the elegant use of stylistic elements to distract from context). Unimaginable. And he wants men to read slash! OMG! I'm so glad that these scientists are neutral researchers and not, for examples, a bunch of prejudiced, homophobic, misogynistic, pseudo-academic little pissers. Now that would be annoying.
O_O: Men want to see women in porn that behave exactly like they'd behave: promiscuous, easy, and without any lasting connection. In the case of gay men, they DO get to see men who behave just like them. When men read books, they want action. Generally speaking, women want to read about men who behave like them: sensitive and emotionally committed. In those women who do like visual erotica, they tend to want plot and context.
Ogi: Mom, why don't you like porn?
Mom: Oh Ogi, dear, I hear it is full of naked people. I enjoy movies with plot where they show relationships between sensitive and emotionally committed people.
Ogi: *writes down theory*
And the winner is:
Dr. Ogi Ogas about why the survey failed:
I think one big mistake we made -- and I believe it was a mistake in execution, rather than conception -- was to include questions that we perceived to be of interest to fandom. We would have been better off if we had simply included questions that were of interest to us, though that most likely would have generated its own similar set of problems. Some questions were suggested to us by fans and an aca-fan, though we're fully responsible for the final wording of the questions. They weren't really of interest to us, but since fans were helping us with this project, we wanted to give something back.
I... got nothing.
The bolded lines are all unaltered quotes from this thread.
The following is an older quote, but unaltered as well. It shows nicely how open-minded Ogi Ogas is and how deep his desire to understand fandom goes:
Gay erotica (that is, gay sex stories written by gay guys for gay guys) is probably easiest because it feels like straight erotica (which I can enjoy), with domination and erotic tropes I can relate to... I can handle the emotional aspects of slash (makes me feel like I'm reading chick lit, which I do read once in a while) but when the emotional stuff then leads into gay sex... that's pretty much the worst! :)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
on 2009-09-02 04:09 pm (UTC)*hands over mango juice in a tall, dewy glass with pink elephant ice cubes and a green straw* :) :) :)
How am I supposed to know that you actually want to see his backside? Well, it's not rocket science. Not even cognitive neuroscience. *grins*
no subject
on 2009-09-02 04:31 pm (UTC)*facepalm* I could have surveyed you. Everyone does it these days. Too late now.
*takes juice and sips happily*
*cries a bit as the elephants slowly dissolve.*
no subject
on 2009-09-02 05:51 pm (UTC)no subject
on 2009-09-03 09:06 am (UTC)Here it goes:
Do you sing when you take a shower?
a) I've hurt myself once by dancing 'YMCA' in the shower, slipping on the tiles, grabbing the shower curtain and then falling down.
b) I happily moan along to 'Je t'aime'.
c) What the hell is a shower?
d) other
The book will be called: FANDOM IN THE SHOWER - REVEALING REVELATIONS.
no subject
on 2009-09-03 03:08 pm (UTC)a), of course. As if you had to ask. :D
I LOVE THIS SURVEY! *pre-orders a copy now*
no subject
on 2009-09-03 03:13 pm (UTC)*slinks away*
no subject
on 2009-09-03 03:26 pm (UTC)*squints at answer*
*makes notes*
*applies unbelievably complicated mathematical procedures*
*42*
All right. My statistical analysis shows that with the probability of 74.62%, you are the livejournal user with the pseudonym *thimble_kiss*. Another 46.32% say that you have a dreamwidth account under the same name. With a probability of 80% I predict that at least two of the following five statements are correct:
+ You take part in seedy roleplay games. (Get it? *Is blown away by own wit*)
+ You have a kink for written east European dialects
+ You love this survey
+ You look funny when you take a shower
+ This is a complete waste of time, but more entertaining that Ogi's now empty journal
no subject
on 2009-09-03 04:02 pm (UTC)All right, all right. But what about my pet turtle's masturbatory habits??? You PROMISED. Also there is a *counts on fingers, frowns, sticks tongue between teeth* 53.68% chance that I'm not the same on Dreamwidth.
I also not know vot is this kink you speak of. :D *cozies up to you*
no subject
on 2009-09-03 06:33 pm (UTC)Well, 53.68% clearly says that it's far more likely that you have a different username on dreamwidth. *slithers out of name!fail 2009*
*make love not surveys*
*cuddles*
no subject
on 2009-09-03 07:11 pm (UTC)*gives it silk pillows for comfortable frottage, then tactfully looks away*
You're right, you had mathematical coverage for your conclusions all along! I shall never doubt you again. :* :* :*
no subject
on 2009-09-03 03:27 pm (UTC)I'm actually a bit baffled how they found me. I'm lurking in the outskirts of fandom with a very small and cozy f-list...